Two of the strongest voices fighting for climate justice meet in conversation for the first time. One is the youngest member of the United States Congress, the other is the Swedish student who gave life to Fridays for Future: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Greta Thunberg.
Two of the most recognised female figures for their commitment to the fight for climate and against inequality met for the first time. Not in person, but thanks to the British daily the Guardian, which organised a virtual meeting, at zero emissions, between the two voices that resonate most loudly on these issues in today's world. One is the youngest woman ever elected to the United States Congress, the other is the Swedish student who gave life to the global climate movement Fridays for Future: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Greta Thunberg. Their conversation inspires, motivates, is a mirror of their two personalities, and touches on the current issues that have driven them and countless people around the world to make their voices heard: from the climate crisis to deep social inequalities. But above all, they tell their own stories to explain what keeps them going and stops them from giving up.
I'm so glad about this conversation. I remember the first time I listened to your speech and I was electrified, because in the United States people say there's no need to communicate this urgency about the climate. Hearing you say the ideas that I also had was incredible and a confirmation. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Their dialogue went beyond the surface of the issues, digging deeper first into the dynamics that arise when confronting these topics, then into the feelings and emotions experienced every day — in all likelihood shared by a great many other people.
The most common criticism I receive is that I'm being manipulated, that children shouldn't be politicised because they can't think for themselves. I think that's really annoying. I have the right to speak my mind, so why shouldn't I be able to form my own opinion and try to change people's thinking?Greta Thunberg
Among those dynamics are the obstacles and clichés presented by people — for example, being ignored for being considered too young, or too inexperienced.
The harshness of the opposition reflects the power we are challenging. You can look at it with despair, or with hope. And it shows how strong we are: we are so strong that we can take it on credibly and build a movement against it. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Another common and disheartening difficulty, in various countries and contexts, is the lack of climate action, which increasingly makes way for debate about who should act and, above all, who should act first. "In Sweden the most common excuse for not acting is that we're a small country, with only 10 million inhabitants," Thunberg commented. "It's frustrating, because why should we be arguing about who needs to change first? Why not just get started?".
In response, Ocasio-Cortez: "The same thing happens in the United States. People think, 'If China doesn't act, why should we?' They seem proud to be first in fracking, in oil, in consumption, in single-use plastic. But they don't seem to care about being leaders in protecting the environment, for the future of our children."
Will we choose to lead, or will we sit on our hands?Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
The theme of inaction led the two young women to open up a reflection on the meaning and value of leadership. "People think leadership is something glamorous, powerful," Ocasio-Cortez comments. "Being a leader means being first, setting the agenda. But what people don't understand is that leadership is extremely difficult. Leadership is responsibility. It's not fun. Leadership means being ahead of others. It means taking risks. And making decisions even when you're not 100 per cent certain of the outcomes. Following is easy, it's the simplest thing in the world. But it has its drawbacks. You arrive late, you don't control your own destiny. You don't have control, full stop. Because you're under someone else's control."
The conversation moves on to another question: how to face these obstacles, how to overcome them and maintain the enthusiasm of the beginning — perhaps even stronger — going forward too. Ocasio-Cortez starts, with a touch of irony: "There's a school of thought that says the more informed you are about climate change, the more you'll think it's too late and wallow in despair, stopping yourself from acting. Given how daunting the issue is, I wonder why you're not so despairing that you just stay on the sofa all day waiting for the apocalypse?" After a laugh, Thunberg replies: "Before I started the climate strikes I felt that way, I was depressed. But what I find encouraging are the other people fighting in different ways and on different fronts to create a better future and to prevent a climate catastrophe."
"I had a similar experience too, although it was more related to economic inequality," Ocasio-Cortez then recounts. "I was working in a restaurant and, day after day, I felt depressed. I felt powerless, as if there was nothing I could do to push back against the social structures that exist in the United States to keep the middle class poor and the rich ever richer. For a while I was truly in despair: what do I do? Is this my life? Being there, working, knowing things are hard, then going home and starting all over again. But what was profoundly liberating was my first act of protest: when I went to the Standing Rock reservation to fight against the Dakota Access pipeline."
From that moment, I understood that hope is not something you have. Hope is something you create with your actions. It's something you have to show the world, and once one person has hope, it can be contagious. Other people start to act and you have even more hope.Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Recognising one's own potential and the power of one's actions is therefore essential, so as not to leave room for the feelings of helplessness and overwhelm that would play into the hands of those who want things to stay exactly as they are. According to Ocasio-Cortez, "the greatest weapon at the disposal of these people is trying to make you believe that you don't matter. They say 'what you do doesn't change anything'. Because if you convince people that something doesn't matter, then they'll stop doing it, they'll go back to what they've always done".
Many people who feel hopeless ask me "What should I do?" and I answer "Act. Do something". It's the best medicine against sadness and depression. Greta Thunberg
"People don't know when their small actions will actually turn into something. Perhaps because we're obsessed with having to measure results. What result does standing in front of Parliament with a sign bring? It doesn't lower emissions, it doesn't directly change any law. But what it does is make people feel emotions, and many people underestimate this power". The power to move, to inspire, and to make everyone, without exception, feel part of something. A power that can truly change the future.